Killmail Archivist

EVE Online theorycrafting and history


Don’t Fly Dual-Rep Vengeances (aka a short note on missile damage mechanics)

I get asked fairly often for assault frigate fits, and the Vengeance is a pretty common request in particular.  I usually suggest a fit with a single ancillary armor repairer, and the nearly universal response is, “Why not put two armor reps on it?”  The answer is a little complicated, with the short version being “You need a web to apply damage.”  Let’s go into detail.

Armor repairers need capacitor to run; an armor rep that you can’t afford to run (even in pulses) is largely useless.  A single SAR, or SAAR, has the advantage that it can be powered by a single small nosferatu module, leaving your three midslots available for a propulsion module (MWD preferred) and tackle.  However, two SARs are incredibly capacitor-intensive: with an AB fit, you can permanently run one repairer and pulse the other occasionally using a single nos.  Using a MWD, you will barely stay cap-stable running a single repairer, much less two.  (And this assumes that the nosferatu is draining at full strength; in practice, you will be even more unstable than you think.)

As a result of the capacitor problems, nearly all dual-rep Vengeance fits will include a small injector in one of the mid slots, typically spending the other two on a prop mod and a scram.  And this is where we run into problems: Without a web, a Vengeance struggles to apply damage to other frigates effectively.

Eve’s servers will compute missile damage using the following decision tree:

  • If the target is moving slower than the missile’s explosion velocity AND is larger than the missile’s explosion radius, then the missile does full damage.
  • If the target is moving slower than the missile’s explosion velocity AND is smaller than the missile’s explosion radius, then the missile does reduced damage proportional to the difference in size between them.  (For example, if you shoot a stationary interceptor using a torpedo, it will do a tiny fraction of the torpedo’s listed damage.)
  • If the target is moving faster than the missile’s explosion velocity, then the missile does reduced damage, proportional to the difference in velocity and inversely proportional to the difference in explosion radius and target radius.  (In other words, if the target is significantly bigger than the missile, then this will reduces some of the benefit of speedtanking.  If the target is smaller than the missile AND faster than it, the benefits of speedtanking are increased.)

Most fitting tools, like EFT or PyFa, don’t have a convenient way to model this.  But you can use Excel or Google Drive to produce the resulting curve, for any given ammo/skillset and target.  Here’s what DPS looks like for a Vengeance shooting at an armor-tanked frigate (an Enyo) with its MWD off, as it varies with speed.  The red line is Nova Rage Rockets, and the blue line is Caldari Navy Rage Rockets:

ouch.

What’s important to recognize here is that an Enyo with no propulsion module at all will move at 340m/s; with a Tech-2 Afterburner, it will move at 860m/s.  So, here’s what the damage output looks like:

  • Nova Rage, versus an unwebbed Enyo with no propmod (or MWD off): 139dps
  • Nova Rage, versus an unwebbed Enyo with an AB running: 61dps
  • Caldari Navy Nova, versus an unwebbed Enyo with no propmod (or MWD off): 137dps
  • Caldari Navy Nova, versus an unwebbed Enyo with an AB running: 103dps

In case those numbers sound acceptable to you, consider that the Enyo can put down over 320dps with Antimatter without overheating, or 275dps with Null.  A typical Retribution outputs 200dps, and an autocannon Jaguar around 180dps.

Adding a web to the mix means that an Enyo moves at 140m/s with no prop mod, or 340m/s with AB.  This allows you to do full (or nearly full) DPS with rockets; but, we’ve already established that you need an injector to effectively run dual-rep.  It’s a catch-22.

My preferred solution is to simply stick to a single armor repairer, and take a web.  You still have a fantastic tank on a single rep, and you’ll be able to effectively apply what little damage the Vengeance can put out.  (On top of that, it frees up a low-slot for a Ballistic Control System, further improving your DPS.)

The total fit that I use for the Vengeance:

[Vengeance, Single SAR (MWD)]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Corpii A-Type Thermic Plating
Ballistic Control System II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
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